Valeon - Post Session 2

[Donnie Ewald]

Jeremiah, if you're okay with it, I'd like to read the Pathfinder Downtime materials and come back to your post that you shared post session 1. I've already noticed that I calculated some things wrong yesterday and will propose corrections and a different course...nothing that'll alter what we did yesterday of course.

[Donnie Ewald]

Doing a bunch of reading in the Pathfinder Ultimate Campaign (UC) book, any earned Goods or Labor costs 10gp, Magic 50gp, and Influence is 15 gp (UC:77). You've previously granted 11 Influence and 47 Influence according to my notes. That's 870gp just to pay for that 58 Influence or we need to track what we've paid for separately from what we haven't (also page 77). Unless a DM grant of Influence is free and separate from what we earn from our downtime activities.

Also, from my study of the book and your notes on the envelope, I have an Herbalist shop (UC:110) named Sunflow Solutions and there’s no upkeep as it’s already factored in the earnings (UC:92). My parents managed the shop themselves and since I’ve returned, I’ve actively run the business for these 90 days of downtime (UC:86) and that adds a +10 bonus. Also, I’m assuming that I either prevented, handled, or had positive random events fall during the Event Phase (UC:83).

To summarize my next steps, I’m going to hire some Laborers, earn gold at times to pay for stuff, add Lodgings to my joint which’ll allow everyone a place to crash and use as a central meeting place until something more formal is arranged, upgrade those since Mouse is obviously used to more comfortable furnishings regardless of whatever she doesn’t say, and upgrade the Laborers to Elite Guards once the construction is finished. To simplify and normalize the math, I’m taking 10 for the various checks as described throughout and I’m starting with 102gp. Here’s how it breaks down:

1. First 30 days:
   1. Full Herbalist’s shop will generate gold for 168gp. Need some liquid cash.
2. Days 31-40:
   1. Hire Laborers (UC:106) for 70gp. They’ll generate 1.2 Labor a day for 9 days, so I can get to 10 saved Labor. I’ll pay the 100gp and hold that.
      
   2. The Artisan’s Workshop portion of the Herbalist shop will generate Goods for 5 days, so I can get to 5 saved Goods. I’ll pay the 100gp and hold that. It’ll generate gold for the next 4 days for 4 gold total.
      
   3. The rest of the Herbalist shop will generate gold for the full 9 days for 41gp and 4sp.
      
   4. Build Lodging (UC:99) with the held Goods, Labor, and I’ll purchase Influence (UC:77) since I’m not sure of your answer to the bit above for 30gp. That takes a month to build.
3. Days 41-50:
   1. The Artisan’s Workshop portion of the Herbalist shop will generate Goods for 9 days, so I can get to 9 saved Goods. I’ll hold on paying for these until I have more gold.
      
   2. The Laborers will generate 1.2 Labor a day for 5 days, so I can get to 6 saved Labor. I’ll hold on paying for these until I have more gold. They’ll generate gold for the next 4 days for 4gp, 8sp.
      
   3. The rest of the Herbalist shop will generate gold for the full 9 days for 41gp and 4sp. Brings current total to 61gp, 6sp.
4. Days 50-69:
   1. Full Herbalist’s shop (includes Laborers) will generate gold for 133gp. b. Pay for the 9 saved Goods and 6 saved Labor. Brings current total to 44gp, 6sp.
5. Days 70-86:
   1. Lodging is finished being built.
      
   2. Purchase Furnishings augmentation (UC:104) for Lodging with the held Goods and Labor. Takes 20 days to finish.
      
   3. Full Herbalist’s shop (includes Laborers) will generate gold for 112gp. Brings current total to 156gp, 6sp.
6. Days 87-89:
   1. Full Herbalist’s shop (excludes Laborers as they’re converting to Elite Guards) will generate gold for 20gp, 4sp. Brings current total to 177gp.
7. Day 87:
   1. Upgrade Laborers to Guards (UC:106) with gold for 30gp. Takes a day.
8. Days 88-89:
   1. Upgrade Guards to Elite Guards (UC:105) with gold for 70gp. Takes two days.
9. Day 90:
   1. Furnishing augmentation to the Lodging finished.
      
   2. Laborers fully upgraded to Elite Guards to protect our domicile.
      
   3. Current gold total is 77gp. Need to quest and get some cash!
      
   4. I’m open to suggestions on how to calculate the +4 to Influence for the Sitting Room (UC:102). I just ignored it for the whole 90 days.
      
   5. Hire a Master Smith as a manager (UC:89) for 4gp a day. Steep; but I think it’s the closest manager that relates. He’ll be paid from the 6gp, 7sp that the shop generates daily.

[Donnie Ewald]

A few things to call out that were quite useful in my frickin long post above:

1. Hero Labs. I purchased the Pathfinder Core and Ultimate Campaign addon so I could experiment.
   
2. The Pathfinder reference document. Specifically the Downtime rules: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/downtime.html
   
3. This reddit thread finally caused a light bulb to flash: https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/29f88n/player_wants_to_buy_an_inn_how_does_it_generate/?st=j9onzrp4&sh=62d01882
   
4. The software to help with Pathfinder Downtime rules: https://github.com/clandowski/PF_Downtime I was surprised at how easy it was to compile with Visual Studio.
   
5. Also, I may've spent waaaay too much time thinking about this today while I was off.
   

[DM JEB]

Ok Donnie lets break it down

In my last post a few mistakes were made
Income for the herbalist shop can be 36 gp not 35. remember since I’m bridging between pathfinder and DND I said that income for a building/ working is increased from “per day” to per week using the UC timescale. I then said it costs 10 gp in labor to upkeep, but its only 4 gp per week I used the Master smith form UC p.89 for a production facility. The mistake I made was I took the gp bonus from 3 labors into maintenance cost instead of boosting your earnings; and I didn’t realize that a team of laborers actually is a group of 5 commoners working for you and not individuals. I’ll keep the 7 gp material cost, but to be honest I rolled a d12 for that, and I can adjust if needed. Think of it as the cost of buying inventory instead of having your employees foraging, and it does mean you can pick up small amounts of common potion ingredients for free.  
So that first 30 days sees a net profit of 100 gp instead of 72gp a month (whoopsies!)
You are correct on the laborers and they will bring the profit up 2 gp a week for 108 gp a month or 38 a week before cost. They can still generate 2 gp or 2 labor points. So with 2 labor points a week for a week  you have 2 point that will cost 20 gp.
Remember the earned cost is for crafting these resources with your buildings like you would craft a magic item with a tool set. You only pay half the item cost. I don’t see why you can’t sell of the labor points for 20 gp each for a profit of 20 gp, but I recommend keeping them if you decide to do this.
I don’t mind you breaking down you shop to generate different things at the same time just remember some rooms can only generate one or two types of capital resources. For example, the sitting room in your shop only generates influence, from overhearing all the dirty laundry your shrooms buddies share while smoking your fine product.  
If you focus souly on one resource at a time your building can do
total gp potential 36
total influence potential 40
total goods potential 31
here is the break down
herbalist
1 artisan's workshop   earnings gp goods or influence +10
1 bedroom                   earnings gp or influence +3
1 greenhouse               earnings gp goods, or influence +12
1 kitchen                      earnings gp or goods +4
1 lavatory                     bonus to contact demises
1 sitting room              earnings influence +4
1 storage                      earnings gp +2
1 store front                earnings capital (wild card uses for anything the building can make) +5
So if you have your shop producing gold except for the worksop that will make goods each week you can get 10 goods, 26gp, and 4 influence at a net loss of 78 gold (10 goods cost 100 gp to make with 26 gp income -4 gp for the manager for a profit of 22gp payed to the goods cost). And all the other combinations in between.
For example, those first 30 days can still make 100 gold but also gain 16 influences…….in fact I should have said that in the first place (whoopsies #2)
If at any point I say you gain X amount of influence/goods/labor during your adventure you do not have to pay to get it. It’s yours free and clear. I’ve done these calculations with the manager factored in in the assumption you would want to double dip on income. While you are spending time away from your business, while your manger takes care of it, you can also use the class based income formula ( 1d20+character level+ highest ability score modifier-5 per week) to make even more money during the same time frame. You could earn your 100+ gp and 4 influence a month, I know it’s not going to be more than the amount you put out at first, but everyone else is on the same timescale.  don't forget your snake oil.

Love DM

[LaraCooper]

Boys. You guys complicate everything. Lol. So would it help if I traded a crash pad in Vale’s storage for room, board and knowledge, drying and mixing ingredients etc., learning the trade while cutting him a break on part time help? Maybe use a little magic to infuse some ointments with disguise self that makes you look younger/ more attractive and splitting the profits 50/50 as part of my trade for knowledge/ materials. You know, because crap wasn’t complicated enough.

[Donnie Ewald]

Thanks for the response. I'll have to reread a few times to understand. And Lara, good job on complicating things further for us!

[Donnie Ewald]

I spent some time this morning with your details below. If anything, your approach to bridging daily in the Ultimate Campaign to weekly for 5e makes calculating things easier. To summarize what happened with my new understanding, I’m going to hire some Laborers, earn gold at times to pay for stuff and capital at other times, add Lodgings to my joint which’ll allow everyone a place to crash and use as a central meeting place until something more formal is arranged, upgrade those since Mouse is obviously used to more comfortable furnishings regardless of whatever she doesn’t say, and upgrade one set of Laborers to Elite Guards once the construction is finished. I do have an Excel spreadsheet created to make this type of math much easier in the future.

Once I understand what we have in the new digs, I'm more than happy to tweak my spreadsheet for that domicile too.

[Sponsored content]